Yeah, that was kind of implied by the following:

“The Labour Party (or the bit with any power) has abandoned any real notion of civil liberties. We all know this. And in fact, we didn’t need 42 days to show us this.”

Doesn’t stop 42 days being significant.

“That’s fine but I just find it a tad dishonest that you don’t say what is acceptable – the usual stance of the self described ‘liberal left’ I find.”

Dishonest? In what way? You need me to actually give a number of days to honestly believe that 42 days is a bad idea? If it was 420 days, would you still accuse me of being dishonest for opposing it if I couldn’t give a number?

For what it’s worth, I think 7 days, with carefully controlled questioning after charge. Charging doesn’t require proof beyond reasonable doubt (that’s conviction), just a decent case. If the police can make the case to the judge that there is likely to be evidence, then they don’t need extravagant pre-charge detention limits.

But once again, I really don’t need to give a specific number to know that 42 is appalling. Compare it to the rest of the world, for example.

“Or it may for the intelligentsia while others wait patiently for someone do do something about the state of the drains.”

So your solution is…do nothing! Wow, we haven’t tried that before.

Hey, I would happily start a Left Liberal Party if I could. But the only people with the kind of contacts and resources to do so are those with something to lose. And they need to know that there’s a constituency for their activities. So yeah, realpolitik. Supply and demand. The voters leave the main parties, demanding something else, and one will be supplied.

“Vote Labour. Join Labour. Anything else is just pretentious twaddle or conservatism.”

Ah, that brings a chuckle. Yes, vote for the party with the abysmal civil rights record and the imperceptibly slight left wing slant. I mean, they’re called ‘Labour’! They have to be the party to vote for!

Is there anything Labour can do to turn you off them? Because to the extent that there is not, and unless you are having any effect changing the party for the better, you are part of the problem: Labour will keep screwing you over because they know they’ve got your vote regardless. Parties can *only* be kept from getting out of hand if voters and members have some leverage over them. If there is no realistic situation where they would leave, the party has no reason to listen to them.

Maybe you think the turning point hasn’t come. I’m curious what more needs to happen before it does, but that’s your call. Maybe you think the party can be saved. But unless you have seen some progress in that endeavour in the past years I can’t see why such optimism would be justified.

Pretentious twaddle? If that’s what you want to call refusing to vote based on name alone. Conservatism? Well, I can’t stand the Tories. But how is it that New Labour is worse, again?

That’s fine but I just find it a tad dishonest that you don’t say what is acceptable – the usual stance of the self described ‘liberal left’ I find.

Was 28 days OK? 14? 0?

Or questioning after charge (one of my preferences)?

Don’t just say let’s wait for a government of the people who will be nice to us to turn up. Real politics, realpolitik, don’t work that way. Or it may for the intelligentsia while others wait patiently for someone do do something about the state of the drains.

Me – I prefer to stick my paw down the drain even if I can only get it half as clean as I want.

Vote Labour. Join Labour. Anything else is just pretentious twaddle or conservatism.