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	<title>Comments on: Left New Media Forum #2</title>
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	<link>http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/2008/12/16/left-new-media-forum-2/</link>
	<description>&#34;We know what happens to people who stay in the middle of the road. They get run down&#34; - Aneurin Bevan, 1953</description>
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		<title>By: susan press</title>
		<link>http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/2008/12/16/left-new-media-forum-2/#comment-837</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[susan press]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2008 13:26:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/?p=452#comment-837</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi David, yes have calculated I am the oldest blogger there ( Dave Osler is  a couple of years younger than me but  could not make  the meeting Monday) which makes a  change from Labour Left events where am still  a  young  whipper-snapper. A harsh reality check!
I think  we need to get more left journalists on board - I know  plenty in the NUJ ie Jeremy Dear. So once  we get  the next meeting  date  confirmed will  contact those I  know and maybe get a broader spread age-wise. We also need to firm up a solid programme of action and delgate tasks so people don&#039;t get discouraged.......]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi David, yes have calculated I am the oldest blogger there ( Dave Osler is  a couple of years younger than me but  could not make  the meeting Monday) which makes a  change from Labour Left events where am still  a  young  whipper-snapper. A harsh reality check!<br />
I think  we need to get more left journalists on board &#8211; I know  plenty in the NUJ ie Jeremy Dear. So once  we get  the next meeting  date  confirmed will  contact those I  know and maybe get a broader spread age-wise. We also need to firm up a solid programme of action and delgate tasks so people don&#8217;t get discouraged&#8230;&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/2008/12/16/left-new-media-forum-2/#comment-836</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2008 04:51:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/?p=452#comment-836</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes I was heartened by Ricardo&#039;s contribution and apparent understanding about the need to establish a core bank of information from both without and within the G20 portals, being passed over by the MSM, for bloggers both writing and vidual to draw on.  I also liked what he had to say about local gaps, which is actually where I thought things would start for the Forum (and how I suggested) though I&#039;m not against going in and testing wits at G20 spatial level.

On the written/visual issue, I sometimes feel the literacy element is a bit overplayed. While there is 30% functional illitercy in the UK, that still leave 70% decent literacy, and local opinion formers will be part of that latter group as well; my experience of on the ground campaigning is that if you dumb down your audience get dumbed down - treat a readership with respect, and they&#039;ll read stuff if they think it has a relevant starting point.  I think central Labour material is often at fault like this.

On the age gap, I know what you mean, but never fear - I&#039;m mid 40s as an activist but only 20 in my intellectual development, so that sort of make me in my 30&#039;s.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes I was heartened by Ricardo&#8217;s contribution and apparent understanding about the need to establish a core bank of information from both without and within the G20 portals, being passed over by the MSM, for bloggers both writing and vidual to draw on.  I also liked what he had to say about local gaps, which is actually where I thought things would start for the Forum (and how I suggested) though I&#8217;m not against going in and testing wits at G20 spatial level.</p>
<p>On the written/visual issue, I sometimes feel the literacy element is a bit overplayed. While there is 30% functional illitercy in the UK, that still leave 70% decent literacy, and local opinion formers will be part of that latter group as well; my experience of on the ground campaigning is that if you dumb down your audience get dumbed down &#8211; treat a readership with respect, and they&#8217;ll read stuff if they think it has a relevant starting point.  I think central Labour material is often at fault like this.</p>
<p>On the age gap, I know what you mean, but never fear &#8211; I&#8217;m mid 40s as an activist but only 20 in my intellectual development, so that sort of make me in my 30&#8242;s.</p>
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		<title>By: David Semple</title>
		<link>http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/2008/12/16/left-new-media-forum-2/#comment-835</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Semple]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Dec 2008 12:27:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/?p=452#comment-835</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes, I think so. I mean, the idea of video-journalism appeals to me on the basis that a short five minute video, with a few interviews, or a viral video campaign that doesn&#039;t even need words, can reach an audience that is not especially literate.

The risk of course is that this not especially literate audience is not the same not-literate audience that dominates the workplaces we might expect the &#039;forward battalions&#039; of the proletarian movement to reside: retail shopfloors, transport, government offices etc. I think this risk is doubled by the age gap of the LNMF.

There is no one there in their thirties, for example; we&#039;ve essentially skipped a generation.

As to whether all of this will start ideological shifts, no probably not - but as Ricardo from the Morning Star posted on the group last night, there is a big hole in our ability to gather, process and disseminate information - one we need to fill radically. This can be a start to it. My task, ideologically speaking, is to ensure that, because we are internet based, that &#039;internet warrior&#039; issues don&#039;t predominate to the exclusion of real workers&#039; interests.

For this reason, I see the involvement of the trade unions and the Left parties as necessary.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I think so. I mean, the idea of video-journalism appeals to me on the basis that a short five minute video, with a few interviews, or a viral video campaign that doesn&#8217;t even need words, can reach an audience that is not especially literate.</p>
<p>The risk of course is that this not especially literate audience is not the same not-literate audience that dominates the workplaces we might expect the &#8216;forward battalions&#8217; of the proletarian movement to reside: retail shopfloors, transport, government offices etc. I think this risk is doubled by the age gap of the LNMF.</p>
<p>There is no one there in their thirties, for example; we&#8217;ve essentially skipped a generation.</p>
<p>As to whether all of this will start ideological shifts, no probably not &#8211; but as Ricardo from the Morning Star posted on the group last night, there is a big hole in our ability to gather, process and disseminate information &#8211; one we need to fill radically. This can be a start to it. My task, ideologically speaking, is to ensure that, because we are internet based, that &#8216;internet warrior&#8217; issues don&#8217;t predominate to the exclusion of real workers&#8217; interests.</p>
<p>For this reason, I see the involvement of the trade unions and the Left parties as necessary.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/2008/12/16/left-new-media-forum-2/#comment-834</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Dec 2008 07:44:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/?p=452#comment-834</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think that&#039;s all I mean - I meant &#039;video-journalism&#039; dominating written output.  &#039;Interviewing people on the street&#039; (I think I saw in Owen&#039;s short thing)about what they&#039;d like to see happen is all fine, but it&#039;s hardly likely to start ideological shifts happening overnight.  So I think we&#039;re agreed?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that&#8217;s all I mean &#8211; I meant &#8216;video-journalism&#8217; dominating written output.  &#8216;Interviewing people on the street&#8217; (I think I saw in Owen&#8217;s short thing)about what they&#8217;d like to see happen is all fine, but it&#8217;s hardly likely to start ideological shifts happening overnight.  So I think we&#8217;re agreed?</p>
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		<title>By: David Semple</title>
		<link>http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/2008/12/16/left-new-media-forum-2/#comment-833</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Semple]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Dec 2008 00:31:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/?p=452#comment-833</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, I&#039;m neither a journalist nor a wannabe journalist. I don&#039;t speak for anyone else - though I&#039;m quite disappointed that the writing side of things seem to be dominated by the young and upwardly mobile. Susan was the only writer of many years&#039; experience - the others were techies, excluding John McDonnell of course.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I&#8217;m neither a journalist nor a wannabe journalist. I don&#8217;t speak for anyone else &#8211; though I&#8217;m quite disappointed that the writing side of things seem to be dominated by the young and upwardly mobile. Susan was the only writer of many years&#8217; experience &#8211; the others were techies, excluding John McDonnell of course.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/2008/12/16/left-new-media-forum-2/#comment-832</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2008 23:33:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/?p=452#comment-832</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yep, email away. I have a fuller post in mind having chewed over the G20 idea a bit, though it revolves around one simple question:  is this a left blogger venture, or is it journalists and wannabbee journalist doing stuff for free? What links it back to blogging? Is that necessary or is it ok to go off a tangent.

I&#039;m supportive, just starting exploring]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yep, email away. I have a fuller post in mind having chewed over the G20 idea a bit, though it revolves around one simple question:  is this a left blogger venture, or is it journalists and wannabbee journalist doing stuff for free? What links it back to blogging? Is that necessary or is it ok to go off a tangent.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m supportive, just starting exploring</p>
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		<title>By: David Semple</title>
		<link>http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/2008/12/16/left-new-media-forum-2/#comment-831</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Semple]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2008 22:44:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/?p=452#comment-831</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[These are very useful Paul! I shall have time over the next few days to look over all of these - then I&#039;ll post details on the Left New Media Forum, which is now a Yahoo group. Shall I submit your email to the group?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These are very useful Paul! I shall have time over the next few days to look over all of these &#8211; then I&#8217;ll post details on the Left New Media Forum, which is now a Yahoo group. Shall I submit your email to the group?</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/2008/12/16/left-new-media-forum-2/#comment-830</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 22:44:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/?p=452#comment-830</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sounds very interesting, and i admire the synthesis of idealism and practical get-up-and-go from afar.  I&#039;ll do my PayPal duty in due course.

 Though not the kind of event I thought might get concentrated on first up, I can see where you&#039;re coming from on it.

My fear, if I have one, is that, despite the initial energies and get-up-and-go (and there really does seem to a lot here) is that this and whatever comes next will be a huge time commitment, and will cost money you as a Forum (or should that be we?) don&#039;t have at present, and that things may tail off and disappoint rather than envervate.

With this in mind can I recommend a funding application to the Amiel Melburn Trust (deadline 02 January, decision 29 January) to cover at least costs, but also potentially &#039;freelance fees&#039; which is a specific budget line in the application form.  You are as a group a bunch of excellent wordsmiths and I think you could bash out a crakcing application, with real ownership taken by all of you, in good time for the deadline.  See http://www.amielandmelburn.org.uk/ for details.  I&#039;d be tempted to pitch a bid this sdide of £10,000 which should give you enough &#039;technical&#039; money and freelancing fees to really pull this first venture off.

Beyond that, and still connecting back to Amiel Melburn (and stick it in a bid), I think it might be worth (maybe via john McDonnell) establishing links with the Holland-based Transnational Institute (http://www.tni.org/), the link to AMT that Hilary Wainwright is both a Trustee of AMT and a fellow of TNI, and Tariq Ali is a Trustee of AMT and supporter of TMI). I think they&#039;d be interested in what might be done at a pan-European level if it was &#039;pitched&#039; right to them.  Certailny I think there&#039;s enough &#039;scholar-actvist&#039; feel about this G20 thing to excite them.

By the way, if you&#039;re looking at German involvement, &#039;altG20&#039; will mean &#039;OldG20&#039; to Germans, won&#039;t it?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sounds very interesting, and i admire the synthesis of idealism and practical get-up-and-go from afar.  I&#8217;ll do my PayPal duty in due course.</p>
<p> Though not the kind of event I thought might get concentrated on first up, I can see where you&#8217;re coming from on it.</p>
<p>My fear, if I have one, is that, despite the initial energies and get-up-and-go (and there really does seem to a lot here) is that this and whatever comes next will be a huge time commitment, and will cost money you as a Forum (or should that be we?) don&#8217;t have at present, and that things may tail off and disappoint rather than envervate.</p>
<p>With this in mind can I recommend a funding application to the Amiel Melburn Trust (deadline 02 January, decision 29 January) to cover at least costs, but also potentially &#8216;freelance fees&#8217; which is a specific budget line in the application form.  You are as a group a bunch of excellent wordsmiths and I think you could bash out a crakcing application, with real ownership taken by all of you, in good time for the deadline.  See <a href="http://www.amielandmelburn.org.uk/" rel="nofollow">http://www.amielandmelburn.org.uk/</a> for details.  I&#8217;d be tempted to pitch a bid this sdide of £10,000 which should give you enough &#8216;technical&#8217; money and freelancing fees to really pull this first venture off.</p>
<p>Beyond that, and still connecting back to Amiel Melburn (and stick it in a bid), I think it might be worth (maybe via john McDonnell) establishing links with the Holland-based Transnational Institute (<a href="http://www.tni.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.tni.org/</a>), the link to AMT that Hilary Wainwright is both a Trustee of AMT and a fellow of TNI, and Tariq Ali is a Trustee of AMT and supporter of TMI). I think they&#8217;d be interested in what might be done at a pan-European level if it was &#8216;pitched&#8217; right to them.  Certailny I think there&#8217;s enough &#8216;scholar-actvist&#8217; feel about this G20 thing to excite them.</p>
<p>By the way, if you&#8217;re looking at German involvement, &#8216;altG20&#8242; will mean &#8216;OldG20&#8242; to Germans, won&#8217;t it?</p>
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		<title>By: Kit Leary</title>
		<link>http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/2008/12/16/left-new-media-forum-2/#comment-829</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kit Leary]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 16:49:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/?p=452#comment-829</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Dave

Nice to meet you last night. I&#039;ll forgive you for overlooking me this one time :p

Just so you know, I have set up the websites I said I would - leftnewmedia.org and altG20.org.

I was wondering if you could drop me an email - I need to set you up with an @leftnewmedia.org email address for PayPal purposes.

Cheers


Kit]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Dave</p>
<p>Nice to meet you last night. I&#8217;ll forgive you for overlooking me this one time :p</p>
<p>Just so you know, I have set up the websites I said I would &#8211; leftnewmedia.org and altG20.org.</p>
<p>I was wondering if you could drop me an email &#8211; I need to set you up with an @leftnewmedia.org email address for PayPal purposes.</p>
<p>Cheers</p>
<p>Kit</p>
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