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	<title>Comments on: The Establishment, Dolly Draper and Labour List</title>
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	<link>http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/2009/04/13/the-establishment/</link>
	<description>&#34;We know what happens to people who stay in the middle of the road. They get run down&#34; - Aneurin Bevan, 1953</description>
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		<title>By: Pages tagged "jeering"</title>
		<link>http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/2009/04/13/the-establishment/#comment-1444</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Pages tagged "jeering"]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 18:32:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/?p=604#comment-1444</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] bookmarks tagged jeering The Establishment, Dolly Draper and Labour List&#160;saved by 9 others  &#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;skibby bookmarked on 04/16/09 &#124; [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] bookmarks tagged jeering The Establishment, Dolly Draper and Labour List&nbsp;saved by 9 others  &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;skibby bookmarked on 04/16/09 | [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Duncan</title>
		<link>http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/2009/04/13/the-establishment/#comment-1445</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Duncan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2009 09:57:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/?p=604#comment-1445</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes, some good points here.  Labourlist was always missing a trick, because it was always a top-down, message-controlled website.  As such, it acted less as something useful to Labour or to the left, but as - quite literally - a red rag to the Tories.  As such, the comments across Labourlist have been massively slanted towards Tory/apolitical comment, mostly of a purile or offensive nature.  There have been no conversations on there at all - there has been no room for conversation. (As such, I find Labourhome a more enjoyable blog, however I understood the case for a more edited and directed entity, if not the direction that Labourlist took).

I don&#039;t think activists should wait for a Derek Draper or an Alex Hilton or a Tom Miller to come along and provide such a forum, however.  To a greater or lesser extent, the technology and the platforms are there, it is perhaps just that we do not use them as we ought.  Unfortunately Labourlist does not have the flexibility to be steered into the directions you suggest without changes from the top, but other forums do have that flexibility.  I understand Labourhome is developing a relaunch on a different platform, so now would be the time to recommend the presence of certain items so that the &#039;free for all&#039; forum - which is really its strength and its weakness - could co-exist with more directed, campaigning material.

I think there is certainly room for a whole-Labour or wider labour movement blog that includes opinion and input from across the full spectrum of ideas.  Individual and group blogs that are very much geared towards one set of ideas are great - I enjoy coming here, I enjoy reading Tom, I even enjoy reading Luke Akehurst! - but something beyond individuals and reactions to individuals is a desirable thing.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, some good points here.  Labourlist was always missing a trick, because it was always a top-down, message-controlled website.  As such, it acted less as something useful to Labour or to the left, but as &#8211; quite literally &#8211; a red rag to the Tories.  As such, the comments across Labourlist have been massively slanted towards Tory/apolitical comment, mostly of a purile or offensive nature.  There have been no conversations on there at all &#8211; there has been no room for conversation. (As such, I find Labourhome a more enjoyable blog, however I understood the case for a more edited and directed entity, if not the direction that Labourlist took).</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think activists should wait for a Derek Draper or an Alex Hilton or a Tom Miller to come along and provide such a forum, however.  To a greater or lesser extent, the technology and the platforms are there, it is perhaps just that we do not use them as we ought.  Unfortunately Labourlist does not have the flexibility to be steered into the directions you suggest without changes from the top, but other forums do have that flexibility.  I understand Labourhome is developing a relaunch on a different platform, so now would be the time to recommend the presence of certain items so that the &#8216;free for all&#8217; forum &#8211; which is really its strength and its weakness &#8211; could co-exist with more directed, campaigning material.</p>
<p>I think there is certainly room for a whole-Labour or wider labour movement blog that includes opinion and input from across the full spectrum of ideas.  Individual and group blogs that are very much geared towards one set of ideas are great &#8211; I enjoy coming here, I enjoy reading Tom, I even enjoy reading Luke Akehurst! &#8211; but something beyond individuals and reactions to individuals is a desirable thing.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/2009/04/13/the-establishment/#comment-1447</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2009 07:12:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/?p=604#comment-1447</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That was supposed to be mild sarcasm, by the way, Matt, &#039;cos I think while I get your general premise,the left culture of blogging needs to move away from a ranking system towards an analysis of what&#039;s effective in reaching people with alternative messages.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That was supposed to be mild sarcasm, by the way, Matt, &#8216;cos I think while I get your general premise,the left culture of blogging needs to move away from a ranking system towards an analysis of what&#8217;s effective in reaching people with alternative messages.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/2009/04/13/the-establishment/#comment-1446</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2009 07:02:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/?p=604#comment-1446</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yup, agree that localisation is way to go, though as a &#039;middle ranker&#039; you&#039;d expect me to.  Anyway there&#039;s a plan, isn&#039;t there?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yup, agree that localisation is way to go, though as a &#8216;middle ranker&#8217; you&#8217;d expect me to.  Anyway there&#8217;s a plan, isn&#8217;t there?</p>
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		<title>By: Miller 2.0</title>
		<link>http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/2009/04/13/the-establishment/#comment-1449</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Miller 2.0]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 23:14:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/?p=604#comment-1449</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A lot to think about here Dave, would love to chat it over IRL sometime. Think many of your points are valid, but it&#039;s not all within my power to enact. That said, I think some of it can be done.

At the same time, I think activists need to do a lot of what you suggest themselves... on top of what you recommend I think there is also a big gap for campaigning sites which are capable of getting people organised.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A lot to think about here Dave, would love to chat it over IRL sometime. Think many of your points are valid, but it&#8217;s not all within my power to enact. That said, I think some of it can be done.</p>
<p>At the same time, I think activists need to do a lot of what you suggest themselves&#8230; on top of what you recommend I think there is also a big gap for campaigning sites which are capable of getting people organised.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Wardman</title>
		<link>http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/2009/04/13/the-establishment/#comment-1448</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Matt Wardman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 23:00:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/?p=604#comment-1448</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A number of very good points, especially on the localised input.

One thing I pointed out somewhere chimes with your points - one thing missing is a prominent platform for what I call &quot;middle rank&quot; thinkers.

Think thoughtful local councillors and people who can be half way between blog quick-thinking and think tank research (?). When I&#039;ve had time to play with that, it works.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A number of very good points, especially on the localised input.</p>
<p>One thing I pointed out somewhere chimes with your points &#8211; one thing missing is a prominent platform for what I call &#8220;middle rank&#8221; thinkers.</p>
<p>Think thoughtful local councillors and people who can be half way between blog quick-thinking and think tank research (?). When I&#8217;ve had time to play with that, it works.</p>
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