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	<title>Comments on: A forum for strategic thinking</title>
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	<link>http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/2009/09/17/a-forum-for-strategic-thinking/</link>
	<description>&#34;We know what happens to people who stay in the middle of the road. They get run down&#34; - Aneurin Bevan, 1953</description>
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		<title>By: Dave Semple</title>
		<link>http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/2009/09/17/a-forum-for-strategic-thinking/#comment-2689</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dave Semple]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Sep 2009 22:04:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/?p=1077#comment-2689</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[John, seriously if the majority of the Left where you live is Marxist, I want to go live there.

Of course the majority of the Left are non-Marxists: I can&#039;t believe we&#039;re actually having this discussion though. There is an old adage in the Labour Party that it owes more to methodism than to Marxism - but whether it&#039;s the leadership, whether it&#039;s the Fabians, whether it&#039;s Compass, the vast majority are not Marxists. Even among advanced trades unionists such as yourself, members of Labour are primarily reformists.

The revolutionaries are largely consigned to the smaller parties, whose membership numbers a few thousand between all of them, not the hundred and something thousand of Labour. In all seriousness, could you explain what gives you the impression that the majority of &quot;the Left&quot; are Marxist?

What I waant to know is, if that&#039;s the case, how come we&#039;re not getting more air time in the media, and having our own think tanks running the Labour Party bureaucracy etc?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John, seriously if the majority of the Left where you live is Marxist, I want to go live there.</p>
<p>Of course the majority of the Left are non-Marxists: I can&#8217;t believe we&#8217;re actually having this discussion though. There is an old adage in the Labour Party that it owes more to methodism than to Marxism &#8211; but whether it&#8217;s the leadership, whether it&#8217;s the Fabians, whether it&#8217;s Compass, the vast majority are not Marxists. Even among advanced trades unionists such as yourself, members of Labour are primarily reformists.</p>
<p>The revolutionaries are largely consigned to the smaller parties, whose membership numbers a few thousand between all of them, not the hundred and something thousand of Labour. In all seriousness, could you explain what gives you the impression that the majority of &#8220;the Left&#8221; are Marxist?</p>
<p>What I waant to know is, if that&#8217;s the case, how come we&#8217;re not getting more air time in the media, and having our own think tanks running the Labour Party bureaucracy etc?</p>
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		<title>By: John Gray</title>
		<link>http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/2009/09/17/a-forum-for-strategic-thinking/#comment-2686</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Gray]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Sep 2009 21:16:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/?p=1077#comment-2686</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Dave
Not really sure what you are going on about? So the majority of the &quot;left&quot; are non-marxists then? If only...

but I pleased of course my arguments cheer you up! 

What more could a blogger ask for!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Dave<br />
Not really sure what you are going on about? So the majority of the &#8220;left&#8221; are non-marxists then? If only&#8230;</p>
<p>but I pleased of course my arguments cheer you up! </p>
<p>What more could a blogger ask for!</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Semple</title>
		<link>http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/2009/09/17/a-forum-for-strategic-thinking/#comment-2685</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dave Semple]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Sep 2009 20:51:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/?p=1077#comment-2685</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I know there is stuff out there in blogland - but much it suffers from restrictions, theoretical, practical, sectarian. You mention one potential restriction yourself; that a lot of the Left seems focused on Das Kapital.

Personally I think your viewpoint is a joke. The proportion of &quot;the Left&quot; dominated by Marxian thinking is really quite small. Perhaps that should have more bearing on why &quot;the Left&quot; (e.g. the Labour Party?) have been left floundering, as you claim, rather than its opposite - that there are too many Marxians.

Incidentally, I do enjoy your blog - it&#039;s added to my feed reader as of last week.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know there is stuff out there in blogland &#8211; but much it suffers from restrictions, theoretical, practical, sectarian. You mention one potential restriction yourself; that a lot of the Left seems focused on Das Kapital.</p>
<p>Personally I think your viewpoint is a joke. The proportion of &#8220;the Left&#8221; dominated by Marxian thinking is really quite small. Perhaps that should have more bearing on why &#8220;the Left&#8221; (e.g. the Labour Party?) have been left floundering, as you claim, rather than its opposite &#8211; that there are too many Marxians.</p>
<p>Incidentally, I do enjoy your blog &#8211; it&#8217;s added to my feed reader as of last week.</p>
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		<title>By: John Gray</title>
		<link>http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/2009/09/17/a-forum-for-strategic-thinking/#comment-2682</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Gray]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Sep 2009 19:39:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/?p=1077#comment-2682</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Dave
There is stuff out there in blogland about the future of the Party.  The issue is whether or not it agrees with your view of the world or not.  While I enjoy Socialist Unity et al they have very little of value to say to the Party.  The fact that “the left” have been left floundering with no coherent response amidst the greatest economic capitalist failure of recent times must mean something.  It’s time for the “the left” to stop barking up the wrong tree and move on from meaningless oppositionalism against anything not mentioned in Das Kapital.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Dave<br />
There is stuff out there in blogland about the future of the Party.  The issue is whether or not it agrees with your view of the world or not.  While I enjoy Socialist Unity et al they have very little of value to say to the Party.  The fact that “the left” have been left floundering with no coherent response amidst the greatest economic capitalist failure of recent times must mean something.  It’s time for the “the left” to stop barking up the wrong tree and move on from meaningless oppositionalism against anything not mentioned in Das Kapital.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/2009/09/17/a-forum-for-strategic-thinking/#comment-2667</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Sep 2009 06:29:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/?p=1077#comment-2667</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Good article

I&#039;ll be back Sat am for proper comment and will build on/use this for my part 4 megablog thing, but in brief - we can all get too hung up about what the different groups are or aren&#039;t.  The reality is that it&#039;s really local traditions that count.  I&#039;m in Labour because it&#039;s currently the most effective vehicle round my way.  If it was something else, I&#039;d be in that.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good article</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll be back Sat am for proper comment and will build on/use this for my part 4 megablog thing, but in brief &#8211; we can all get too hung up about what the different groups are or aren&#8217;t.  The reality is that it&#8217;s really local traditions that count.  I&#8217;m in Labour because it&#8217;s currently the most effective vehicle round my way.  If it was something else, I&#8217;d be in that.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Semple</title>
		<link>http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/2009/09/17/a-forum-for-strategic-thinking/#comment-2663</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dave Semple]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 19:12:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/?p=1077#comment-2663</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In case you missed it, Tom, that article is linked to above. Some of its contentions are worrying from someone calling themselves socialist.

Some of the points which Andy advances against the LRC are equally true of Compass, though some of the points are just silly. It takes real genius to say that the LRC has no strategy for widening its influence when all the LRC ever does is court the unions and Labour activists - indeed Labour bloggers at one point.

I am not now nor have I ever said the LRC is perfect, but Andy Newman making a comment like how the LRC lacks &quot;any credible argument for how a move to the left would benefit the whole party in electoral terms&quot; strikes me a the sort of thing New Labour get up to: the attempted of anyone to the Left of themselves as historical curiosities.

That&#039;s not analysis; it can concretely be shown up as false.

The conclusions to the article, about an &#039;intellectual revival&#039; are exactly the sort of luvvie wank which most Labourite activists can&#039;t be arsed with - and for good reason; intellectual revival usually means finding different ways to say we&#039;ll let the bastards do what they want.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In case you missed it, Tom, that article is linked to above. Some of its contentions are worrying from someone calling themselves socialist.</p>
<p>Some of the points which Andy advances against the LRC are equally true of Compass, though some of the points are just silly. It takes real genius to say that the LRC has no strategy for widening its influence when all the LRC ever does is court the unions and Labour activists &#8211; indeed Labour bloggers at one point.</p>
<p>I am not now nor have I ever said the LRC is perfect, but Andy Newman making a comment like how the LRC lacks &#8220;any credible argument for how a move to the left would benefit the whole party in electoral terms&#8221; strikes me a the sort of thing New Labour get up to: the attempted of anyone to the Left of themselves as historical curiosities.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s not analysis; it can concretely be shown up as false.</p>
<p>The conclusions to the article, about an &#8216;intellectual revival&#8217; are exactly the sort of luvvie wank which most Labourite activists can&#8217;t be arsed with &#8211; and for good reason; intellectual revival usually means finding different ways to say we&#8217;ll let the bastards do what they want.</p>
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		<title>By: Miller 2.0</title>
		<link>http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/2009/09/17/a-forum-for-strategic-thinking/#comment-2662</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Miller 2.0]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 19:02:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/?p=1077#comment-2662</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[More than anything I agree with this, esp. the bits about the hard left: http://www.socialistunity.com/?p=4624]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>More than anything I agree with this, esp. the bits about the hard left: <a href="http://www.socialistunity.com/?p=4624" rel="nofollow">http://www.socialistunity.com/?p=4624</a></p>
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		<title>By: Dave Semple</title>
		<link>http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/2009/09/17/a-forum-for-strategic-thinking/#comment-2661</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dave Semple]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 19:00:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/?p=1077#comment-2661</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well Tom, the very least you can do is engage either with the piece or with my refutation of Mr Pseudonymous.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well Tom, the very least you can do is engage either with the piece or with my refutation of Mr Pseudonymous.</p>
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		<title>By: Miller 2.0</title>
		<link>http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/2009/09/17/a-forum-for-strategic-thinking/#comment-2659</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Miller 2.0]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 18:24:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/?p=1077#comment-2659</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Apart from the last paragraph, which we discussed last week, where I lean 55% towards the moustachioed 4th internationalist above.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apart from the last paragraph, which we discussed last week, where I lean 55% towards the moustachioed 4th internationalist above.</p>
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		<title>By: Miller 2.0</title>
		<link>http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/2009/09/17/a-forum-for-strategic-thinking/#comment-2658</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Miller 2.0]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 18:23:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/?p=1077#comment-2658</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Broadly I&#039;m with comrade Trotsky on this one for the time being, until the prospect of some invasion comes up or the EDL arm themselves.

&quot;The SWP, on the other hand, are busy organising a “Rage Against New Labour” protest – which I personally think is preposterous.&quot;

:-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Broadly I&#8217;m with comrade Trotsky on this one for the time being, until the prospect of some invasion comes up or the EDL arm themselves.</p>
<p>&#8220;The SWP, on the other hand, are busy organising a “Rage Against New Labour” protest – which I personally think is preposterous.&#8221;<br />
 <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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