Comments on: With a (Labour) rebel yell!

By: Paul

Paul — Sat, 05 Dec 2009 09:03:56 +0000

Those of who think it’s strategically useful to stay within the Labour party are ‘heckled’ on this blog (or patronised, as on Third Estate) not because of an urge to incivility, though that may help, but because we haven’t yet successfully put our case as to why it’s best to stay within the Labour party.

John McDonnell as an individual has successfully put his case and had it accepted by all but the wildest fringes because it’s backed by evidence of his actions. The Labour left more generally can validly ask for patience while it provides its own evidence on why it’s best to stay in Labour, but it can’t ask for that patience for ever. As Dave suggests, lots of people have stopped listening at least for the time being.

Susan understands that of course, or she wouldn’t be seeking to organise regionally with the LRC, altough I’m less convinced than I would like to be of LRC branch organising as a more appropriate use of resource than simply operating within and around branches/CLPs (yes I know there’s an interrelation, but the emphasis is different.

By: Ian

Ian — Fri, 04 Dec 2009 20:26:09 +0000

Tom
What does that mean?

By: Dave Semple

Dave Semple — Fri, 04 Dec 2009 20:18:13 +0000

What’s your point, Tom? If the Labour Party were a democratic centralist party, conference could remove the entire leadership at one stroke…

By: Tom Miller

Tom Miller — Fri, 04 Dec 2009 19:50:00 +0000

Now if they Labour Party were a democratic centralist one…

By: Dave Semple

Dave Semple — Fri, 04 Dec 2009 15:09:38 +0000

Kevin, the fact that John McDonnell and Jeremy Corbyn are relatively easy to defend is not a problem with the counter-argument to the idea that we shouldn’t support Labour MPs. It is in fact the crux of that argument.

If you want to talk about other MPs, everyone draws their own line somewhere; I personally wouldn’t campaign for anyone outside the LRC. Each activist can make their own mind up about that, but regardless, the example of Corbyn and McDonnell annihilate the idea that we should never vote Labour on principle – which was essentially what Mike Davies was saying.

Susan, in fairness you’ve been heckled on this blog too, and whilst it’s worse having it done in person – there’s just no call for incivility – a lot of people simply don’t want to hear from members of Labour who won’t leave, no matter the circumstances; a position which cuts them off from reasoned analysis.

By: susan press

susan press — Fri, 04 Dec 2009 12:13:58 +0000

Sounds like a parallel universe…..of ultra-left political stupidity.
The recent RMT conference on working-class representation exonerated JMcDonnell and JCorbyn but seemed to lump everyone else together as new labour clones. Which isn’t fair.
Up North we have Gordon Prentice, Mike Wood, Katy Clark, Ronnie Campbell etc etc
In fairness, at the RMT event, where I was heckled by the wilder fringes, I got an apology from someone on the Socialist Party exec

By: Kevin

Kevin — Fri, 04 Dec 2009 10:57:20 +0000

Mike Davies may be wrong but one potential problem with the counter-argument is that MPs like John McDonnell and Jeremy Corbyn are relatively easy to defend. But where should the line be drawn?

What about, say, Dagenham’s Jon Cruddus, who voted for the war in Iraq, foundation hospitals, ID cards and for the extension of detention without charge to 42 days? He is supposedly a ‘left’ MP, close to Compass? Or David Drew, who was against the war but very pro-ID cards and flim-flammed over anti-terror laws?

Leaving aside McDonnell, Corbyn Lynne Jones in Birmingham and Bob Wareing in Liverpool, few other MPs have a consistent record, which makes it all the more difficult not to see them as compromisers with the New Labour project, if not exactly enthusiasts.

By: HarpyMarx

HarpyMarx — Fri, 04 Dec 2009 10:39:14 +0000

I re-read the Mike Davies quote. How surreal! How can Davies maintain that McDonnell et al have not voted against the NL project. What about the Iraq war and the demand for inquiries, MPs like McDonnell and Corbyn were at the forefront leading the resistance. Totally politically signifcant. And how Davies can describe it as the ‘odd rebellion’ is beyond me. Another good example is the fantastic work John McD and Lynne Jones did over the Welfare Reform Bill, pushing amendments and arguing against the draconian Bill. Utterly weird that Davies thinks this…well not that weird I suppose ‘cos many on the left dismiss the Labour left and leftie MPs as if we haven’t achieved anything etc etc and should be outside the LP fighting the evils of NL.

And the LRC, talking of leftie MPs, made the decision to canvass for leftie MPs who have a track record of voting against NL. I will be spending my time in the new year in Hayes and Harlington and Islington as opposed to my own constituency as no way will I be canvassing for a NL clone! Can I just big-up Katy Clark… she has done brilliant work as well.

By: HarpyMarx

HarpyMarx — Fri, 04 Dec 2009 10:25:15 +0000

Many thanks Dave, much appreciated.

By: HarpyMarx

HarpyMarx — Fri, 04 Dec 2009 09:46:15 +0000

It is utterly vital that lefties canvass for MPs like McDonnell and Corbyn as these people, including others, have consistently fought against the vile ideology of neoliberlism and war mongering that NL has consistently adhered to.

Btw: The pic you have used of John McD. to advertise the post is one of mine don’t mind in the least you using it very pleased you are but can you credit me for the pic? That’s all. Many thanks.