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	<title>Comments on: Blogging about blogging: Novelty is overrated</title>
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	<link>http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/2010/01/02/blogging-about-blogging-novelty-is-overrated/</link>
	<description>&#34;We know what happens to people who stay in the middle of the road. They get run down&#34; - Aneurin Bevan, 1953</description>
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		<title>By: The rogues&#8217; gallery, and a wee bit of meta-blogging &#171; Splintered Sunrise</title>
		<link>http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/2010/01/02/blogging-about-blogging-novelty-is-overrated/#comment-4899</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The rogues&#8217; gallery, and a wee bit of meta-blogging &#171; Splintered Sunrise]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Feb 2010 00:59:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/?p=1831#comment-4899</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] itself more effective. There&#8217;s recently been some interesting commentary on this theme here, here and here, and I have been meaning at some point to come back in detail on this. But I do have a few [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] itself more effective. There&#8217;s recently been some interesting commentary on this theme here, here and here, and I have been meaning at some point to come back in detail on this. But I do have a few [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Semple</title>
		<link>http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/2010/01/02/blogging-about-blogging-novelty-is-overrated/#comment-4320</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dave Semple]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jan 2010 17:02:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/?p=1831#comment-4320</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Cohesiveness among bloggers is certainly something to work towards. The problem is, from the point of view of the far Left, that while there are many blogs - even blogs maintained by organisations - there are relatively few which are a) regularly updated and/or b) of a high written standard.

With And Now For Something Completely Sectarian withdrawing from the field, and A Nation of Duncan shutting his place down, there are even less blogs meeting those criteria.

It is my view that a Carnival of Socialism type thing, which shares the linky-love on a regular basis, is a good way to keep things ticking over. This needs regular support from the most active bloggers however, as well as from the minor ones. The alternative is some type of far-Left group blog in the manner of Liberal Conspiracy. A definitive place to read views from across the socialist spectrum, of the kind which will not slow down and go out of business after a few months or even a few years.

While we&#039;re on the subject, Phil, do you have an RSS feed for the blogs you usually read? If so, what&#039;s on there?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cohesiveness among bloggers is certainly something to work towards. The problem is, from the point of view of the far Left, that while there are many blogs &#8211; even blogs maintained by organisations &#8211; there are relatively few which are a) regularly updated and/or b) of a high written standard.</p>
<p>With And Now For Something Completely Sectarian withdrawing from the field, and A Nation of Duncan shutting his place down, there are even less blogs meeting those criteria.</p>
<p>It is my view that a Carnival of Socialism type thing, which shares the linky-love on a regular basis, is a good way to keep things ticking over. This needs regular support from the most active bloggers however, as well as from the minor ones. The alternative is some type of far-Left group blog in the manner of Liberal Conspiracy. A definitive place to read views from across the socialist spectrum, of the kind which will not slow down and go out of business after a few months or even a few years.</p>
<p>While we&#8217;re on the subject, Phil, do you have an RSS feed for the blogs you usually read? If so, what&#8217;s on there?</p>
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		<title>By: a very public sociologist</title>
		<link>http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/2010/01/02/blogging-about-blogging-novelty-is-overrated/#comment-4319</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[a very public sociologist]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jan 2010 16:37:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/?p=1831#comment-4319</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Good piece, Dave. 

What I would like to see develop over the coming year is more cohesiveness among bloggers, in terms of linky love, less group/blog sectarianism  and something approaching what Alex suggests. The old Counterfire site was very promising - it&#039;s a shame the SWP leadership saw it as a factional opponent and something to be shut down. Ironic considering it came so soon after their &#039;unity offensive&#039;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good piece, Dave. </p>
<p>What I would like to see develop over the coming year is more cohesiveness among bloggers, in terms of linky love, less group/blog sectarianism  and something approaching what Alex suggests. The old Counterfire site was very promising &#8211; it&#8217;s a shame the SWP leadership saw it as a factional opponent and something to be shut down. Ironic considering it came so soon after their &#8216;unity offensive&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Semple</title>
		<link>http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/2010/01/02/blogging-about-blogging-novelty-is-overrated/#comment-4315</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dave Semple]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jan 2010 05:19:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/?p=1831#comment-4315</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As regards point 2, I think that&#039;s a very good point. The journalistic skills necessary are the sort which the blogosphere needs to have, and it has always been my view that the National Union of Journalists should take the lead both in demanding press accreditation for bloggers (where else would the NUJ get a bunch of socialists so uncomplicated and supportive of the union?) and in training those bloggers to high journalistic standards.

If the trades union movement wants a voice, the days of funding a dead-tree newspaper which nobody seems to read, even the people who buy it, are probably gone. At least until such times as we have an activist network reaching into the millions who look towards TUC pronouncements as though they are relevant. So why not put the funds to some other use?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As regards point 2, I think that&#8217;s a very good point. The journalistic skills necessary are the sort which the blogosphere needs to have, and it has always been my view that the National Union of Journalists should take the lead both in demanding press accreditation for bloggers (where else would the NUJ get a bunch of socialists so uncomplicated and supportive of the union?) and in training those bloggers to high journalistic standards.</p>
<p>If the trades union movement wants a voice, the days of funding a dead-tree newspaper which nobody seems to read, even the people who buy it, are probably gone. At least until such times as we have an activist network reaching into the millions who look towards TUC pronouncements as though they are relevant. So why not put the funds to some other use?</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/2010/01/02/blogging-about-blogging-novelty-is-overrated/#comment-4312</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Jan 2010 23:46:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/?p=1831#comment-4312</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[V good post, taking the debate further than LFF and AVPS did, away from a focus on blogging as an aim in itself and towards what it&#039;s for.  As you acknowledge, there&#039;s still a lot of this to work out, and it&#039;s exercsin me a good deal.  For now, three quick points.

1) &quot;As this happens, we might begin to reverse the transition from political activism to civic activism* which was aided by the Thatcherite policy of creating civic elites through the funding of third-sector groups, a policy perpetuated to this day.&quot;

Excellent point.  However, I think there&#039;s a strong argument that some of what have become &#039;civic elites&#039; in the third sector are victims of the depoliticsation strategy of thatcherism/New Labour as mucg as they are complicit in it.  That is, they have often been sold a pup by the real elites, where they have plenty of positions, but no power or real influence to go with it.   It&#039;s necessary to re-engage on party terms with this group of people, rathet than simply challenge the legitimacy of what they&#039;ve been up to.  Very interesting area for an expanded blogpost, and indeed for conscience raising about the &#039;myth of community&#039; in general.

2) I agree totally that a) blogs need to be localised b) that needs more time and resource than putting together nationally focused blogs, because the source information needed is hardly ever there without a big dig for it.  That&#039;s why journalistic skills are so important.

Simple as it may seem, it&#039;s worth spending some time on what is the optimum reach of a local blog.  I&#039;m sure that a blogger in London would conceive of a local blog as something reaching, say, 200,000 people, while somewhere round here the &#039;feel&#039; is for the coverage of a small town of say 30-50,000 people.  There are signficant differences in the way these need to be developed, I think, which I&#039;ll come back to, but relate to the fact that in many small towns the &#039;knowability&#039; dynamic is quite different from big areas (I use the neoligism deliberately as I&#039;m still working it through myself.  It&#039;s inevitably tied up with allied hard copy leafleting, and I&#039;ll blog some ideas on that as part of the LNMF &#039;business plan&#039; emerging in my head at the moment.

3) As you indicate, underpinning any successful local blog development is getting together enough time and money.  I think there is a financial model out there which would allow for, say, two people working on a living wage, to run a full-time local (let&#039;s say small town) blog/website and allied activities (without those allied activities it&#039;s not worth it), and to make it pay via a miox of local advertising and union/party support in a way which doesn&#039;t compromise editorial independence, but it&#039;s going to take some initial effort to get one or two &#039;models&#039; in place, and that the current stumbling block.  I&#039;m interested in the blog Phil refers to in Newcastle which appears to be aspiring to develop locally on a volunteer input basis, and I really hope it succeeds, but I think (as yuo say) we have to be realistic about the need to get cash in up front for this kind of endeavour, and that brings to bear dull but essential issues around organisational and legal status which, in the first run on LNMF last year, people simply weren&#039;t prepared or able to engage with.  We have, though, to think big enough around these areas in order to be able to start small.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>V good post, taking the debate further than LFF and AVPS did, away from a focus on blogging as an aim in itself and towards what it&#8217;s for.  As you acknowledge, there&#8217;s still a lot of this to work out, and it&#8217;s exercsin me a good deal.  For now, three quick points.</p>
<p>1) &#8220;As this happens, we might begin to reverse the transition from political activism to civic activism* which was aided by the Thatcherite policy of creating civic elites through the funding of third-sector groups, a policy perpetuated to this day.&#8221;</p>
<p>Excellent point.  However, I think there&#8217;s a strong argument that some of what have become &#8216;civic elites&#8217; in the third sector are victims of the depoliticsation strategy of thatcherism/New Labour as mucg as they are complicit in it.  That is, they have often been sold a pup by the real elites, where they have plenty of positions, but no power or real influence to go with it.   It&#8217;s necessary to re-engage on party terms with this group of people, rathet than simply challenge the legitimacy of what they&#8217;ve been up to.  Very interesting area for an expanded blogpost, and indeed for conscience raising about the &#8216;myth of community&#8217; in general.</p>
<p>2) I agree totally that a) blogs need to be localised b) that needs more time and resource than putting together nationally focused blogs, because the source information needed is hardly ever there without a big dig for it.  That&#8217;s why journalistic skills are so important.</p>
<p>Simple as it may seem, it&#8217;s worth spending some time on what is the optimum reach of a local blog.  I&#8217;m sure that a blogger in London would conceive of a local blog as something reaching, say, 200,000 people, while somewhere round here the &#8216;feel&#8217; is for the coverage of a small town of say 30-50,000 people.  There are signficant differences in the way these need to be developed, I think, which I&#8217;ll come back to, but relate to the fact that in many small towns the &#8216;knowability&#8217; dynamic is quite different from big areas (I use the neoligism deliberately as I&#8217;m still working it through myself.  It&#8217;s inevitably tied up with allied hard copy leafleting, and I&#8217;ll blog some ideas on that as part of the LNMF &#8216;business plan&#8217; emerging in my head at the moment.</p>
<p>3) As you indicate, underpinning any successful local blog development is getting together enough time and money.  I think there is a financial model out there which would allow for, say, two people working on a living wage, to run a full-time local (let&#8217;s say small town) blog/website and allied activities (without those allied activities it&#8217;s not worth it), and to make it pay via a miox of local advertising and union/party support in a way which doesn&#8217;t compromise editorial independence, but it&#8217;s going to take some initial effort to get one or two &#8216;models&#8217; in place, and that the current stumbling block.  I&#8217;m interested in the blog Phil refers to in Newcastle which appears to be aspiring to develop locally on a volunteer input basis, and I really hope it succeeds, but I think (as yuo say) we have to be realistic about the need to get cash in up front for this kind of endeavour, and that brings to bear dull but essential issues around organisational and legal status which, in the first run on LNMF last year, people simply weren&#8217;t prepared or able to engage with.  We have, though, to think big enough around these areas in order to be able to start small.</p>
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		<title>By: Kate Belgrave</title>
		<link>http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/2010/01/02/blogging-about-blogging-novelty-is-overrated/#comment-4306</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kate Belgrave]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Jan 2010 15:27:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/?p=1831#comment-4306</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Excellent article. Going to come back and write a bit more, but I think you&#039;re onto something interesting here. Briefly - I&#039;m with those who think the left online will come into its own when the Tories are in power - at the moment, there are just too many people who are too compromised by their relationship with the Labour party to want to take the broad-church approach that the OP suggests. The party is tired and paranoid at various levels, and too ready to see further-left people as threats. It&#039;ll be better when we&#039;re united against one enemy.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent article. Going to come back and write a bit more, but I think you&#8217;re onto something interesting here. Briefly &#8211; I&#8217;m with those who think the left online will come into its own when the Tories are in power &#8211; at the moment, there are just too many people who are too compromised by their relationship with the Labour party to want to take the broad-church approach that the OP suggests. The party is tired and paranoid at various levels, and too ready to see further-left people as threats. It&#8217;ll be better when we&#8217;re united against one enemy.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Semple</title>
		<link>http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/2010/01/02/blogging-about-blogging-novelty-is-overrated/#comment-4218</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dave Semple]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jan 2010 19:05:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/?p=1831#comment-4218</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Alex, I appreciate your candour surrounding your expulsion - I followed it when you were writing on your own blog about the issue and it&#039;s helpful to have people within different groups tell it like it is.

I&#039;ll get back to you on your own article when I have a spare moment to read some blogs. You&#039;re absolutely right about the linky-love issue. The SP and SWP websites must be fairly well-read, bearing in mind that both publish their newspaper stuff online. You&#039;d think they link to Left bloggers in the hopes of having more traffic sent their way.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alex, I appreciate your candour surrounding your expulsion &#8211; I followed it when you were writing on your own blog about the issue and it&#8217;s helpful to have people within different groups tell it like it is.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll get back to you on your own article when I have a spare moment to read some blogs. You&#8217;re absolutely right about the linky-love issue. The SP and SWP websites must be fairly well-read, bearing in mind that both publish their newspaper stuff online. You&#8217;d think they link to Left bloggers in the hopes of having more traffic sent their way.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex Snowdon</title>
		<link>http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/2010/01/02/blogging-about-blogging-novelty-is-overrated/#comment-4217</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alex Snowdon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jan 2010 18:57:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/?p=1831#comment-4217</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Just read my 1st comment back and there&#039;s a rather obvious error - it should of course say illegally not legally! 

One other thing: a really crucial point about the blogosphere is that people benefit from helping others, e..g linking to someone else will often be reciprocated. This principle is one that hasn&#039;t yet been grasped by left-wing organisations - that it actually benefits you to promote others and participate in a wider discussion with people you may not entirely agree with.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just read my 1st comment back and there&#8217;s a rather obvious error &#8211; it should of course say illegally not legally! </p>
<p>One other thing: a really crucial point about the blogosphere is that people benefit from helping others, e..g linking to someone else will often be reciprocated. This principle is one that hasn&#8217;t yet been grasped by left-wing organisations &#8211; that it actually benefits you to promote others and participate in a wider discussion with people you may not entirely agree with.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex Snowdon</title>
		<link>http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/2010/01/02/blogging-about-blogging-novelty-is-overrated/#comment-4216</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alex Snowdon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jan 2010 18:53:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/?p=1831#comment-4216</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I found this very interesting and perceptive indeed. I agree with your assessment of the current state of the blogosphere and also, roughly speaking, how you envisage the purpose of left-wing blogging (and how things might improve). There is still a great deal of untapped potential - crucially, you are right to say the organised left has failed to utilise that potential. 

I should clarify a couple of things about the SWP. Two of us were expelled in November, in both cases on the basis of &#039;factionalism&#039;. In my case this rested 100% on private emails which the leadership had obtained. I refused to comment on them in my hearing, as I believed (and still do believe) they were obtained legally and it is - in any case - unethical to use private emails as the basis for disciplinary procedures. 

Of course, what really lay behind the expulsions was differences over strategy and direction - and an unwillingness to tolerate those differences. But it&#039;s relevant that the expulsions revealed an extraordinary and backward attitude to the Net on the part of the leadership. Email communication between members is viewed with suspicion. Online activity is enough to have you deemed &#039;factional&#039; - and this is still regarded as utterly unforgivable. There is a neurotic fear of losing control.

We instead need to recognise the tremendous positives about the Net, the new opportunities it creates. If left-wing groups embraced it properly they would reap the benefits. I&#039;ve recently suggested on my own blog (see the post &#039;Cyberspace Leninism?&#039;) that an organised website needs to be frequently updated (with speedy response to events), fully multi-media (more videos especially) and - above all - interactive. This means supporters having opportunities to contribute material and also facility for posting comments.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I found this very interesting and perceptive indeed. I agree with your assessment of the current state of the blogosphere and also, roughly speaking, how you envisage the purpose of left-wing blogging (and how things might improve). There is still a great deal of untapped potential &#8211; crucially, you are right to say the organised left has failed to utilise that potential. </p>
<p>I should clarify a couple of things about the SWP. Two of us were expelled in November, in both cases on the basis of &#8216;factionalism&#8217;. In my case this rested 100% on private emails which the leadership had obtained. I refused to comment on them in my hearing, as I believed (and still do believe) they were obtained legally and it is &#8211; in any case &#8211; unethical to use private emails as the basis for disciplinary procedures. </p>
<p>Of course, what really lay behind the expulsions was differences over strategy and direction &#8211; and an unwillingness to tolerate those differences. But it&#8217;s relevant that the expulsions revealed an extraordinary and backward attitude to the Net on the part of the leadership. Email communication between members is viewed with suspicion. Online activity is enough to have you deemed &#8216;factional&#8217; &#8211; and this is still regarded as utterly unforgivable. There is a neurotic fear of losing control.</p>
<p>We instead need to recognise the tremendous positives about the Net, the new opportunities it creates. If left-wing groups embraced it properly they would reap the benefits. I&#8217;ve recently suggested on my own blog (see the post &#8216;Cyberspace Leninism?&#8217;) that an organised website needs to be frequently updated (with speedy response to events), fully multi-media (more videos especially) and &#8211; above all &#8211; interactive. This means supporters having opportunities to contribute material and also facility for posting comments.</p>
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