Comments on: Secularism and Sikh daggers

By: SIK SEEK

SIK SEEK — Thu, 08 Apr 2010 02:49:53 +0000

I DONT CARE ABOUT RELIGION OR HONOUR OR TRADITION ! IN TODAYS WORLD THIS THING YOU PEOPLE CARRY AROUND IS A WEAPON……..ALWAYS HAS BEEN……ALWAYS WILL BE ! I HAVE WRITTEN TO LOCAL, PROVINCIAL AND FEDERAL LAW MAKERS TO BAN THIS WEAPON AND ALL WEAPONS FROM BEING CARRIED BY ANY PERSON ……NO MATTER WHAT EXCUSE YOU HAVE. RELIGION DOES NOT MAKE YOU SPECIAL. MAYBE WHEN A FEW SIKHS GGET CUT UP INTO LITTLE DALIWALEES YOU WILL LOOK AT COMMON SENSE. MY ANCESTORS CARRIED BUTCHERS KNIVES ON THEM BECAUSE THEY WERE PROS AT PIG SLICING…BUT I DONT CARRY ONE …DO I.
WHEN WE STOP VOTING FOR LAWMAKERS WHO THINK THIS IS OK TO CARRY, THEN MAYBE COMMON SENSE WILL BE THE ORDER OF THE DAY.

By: Dave Semple

Dave Semple — Wed, 10 Feb 2010 19:59:26 +0000

“The school” should not simply encompass the management. It should be students, all teachers and parents. Thus it’s less about respecting authority (on which I say, “Bugger that for a game of soldiers”) and more about democratic decision making and consensus.

As for school uniform policies, the reality is they are inevitably selectively applied; most teachers don’t want to be bothered forcing girls to take off make-up if it’s not obtrusive, or necklaces and bracelets etc. Better to be liberal about the whole thing – wear X articles of clothing, including ties done up, shirts tucked in, but allow small personalisations.

By: (Layman) Mike

(Layman) Mike — Wed, 10 Feb 2010 19:39:19 +0000

My opinion, for what it’s worth:
This is about respecting authority. The school is responsible for the welfare and management of the children. If this child falls on his dagger (welded or unwelded) and injures himself, the school will be at fault. If other children steal his dagger or bring their own knives into school in mimicry, the school will be at fault. The school must be allowed to define and enforce it’s school uniform policy, hopefully treating all religions equally. In the ’70s, the rule was no make-up, no jewellery (no earrings, necklaces, bracelets, with or without crucifixes). (Watches OK, they’re functional.) You couldn’t wear your Commie badge, but you could fix Commie stickers to your bag and books.
People should be encouraged to worship their Gods. Morality improves society, and practicing religious beliefs in a secular society requires strength. People should take pride in their ethnicity. It’s part of their identity. But integration should be the highest priority.

By: VM

VM — Wed, 10 Feb 2010 13:19:29 +0000

From memory a compromise was developed in Canada earlier this decade by having the kirpan sewn into its sheath. The concern wasn’t just that the student in question might use it, but any *accidental* use, which sealing it in the sheath got around. It’s an interesting point you make about the hammer and sickle but I’d be wary about going too far down a liberal path or else we’ll end up treating religious traditions and political struggles as just another type of banal consumer choice.

By: Quick response to my post coming under the knife… « Frank Owen’s Paintbrush

Tue, 09 Feb 2010 23:12:45 +0000

[...] response to my post coming under the knife… By captainjako Dave of Though Cowards Flinch disagrees with my thoughts on Sikh knives being allowed in [...]

By: baggar

baggar — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 21:30:24 +0000

I just wish to point out three things:

1. Sikhs and the Scots have had a legal defence against prosecution on the wearing of and carrying a Kirpan and Skhin Dhu respectively since the Crime Act 1953 – there have not been a single case that has come to Court in the case of the Sikhs concerning the matter – I am simply not knowing about the Scots.

2. A friend of mine actually drafted the official conditions / guidelines issued by the Government to the 20,000 plus schools circa 2000 on the wearing of the Kirpan by Amritdhari schoolchildren. these have not been withdrawn to date.

3. Sir Mota Singh was invited to the Radio Station to talk about his receiving the Knighthood – not about the Kirpan which just happened to be a side issue at the time.

By: Pickled Politics » The problem with some atheists (+ Sikhs and daggers)

Pickled Politics » The problem with some atheists (+ Sikhs and daggers) — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 18:09:21 +0000

[...] there is a point about religion in the public space, and I think Dave Semple is spot on: This principle is not at stake in this case. Quite the opposite. Thinking secularists would [...]

By: Nice blogs 09/02/10 « Raincoat Optimism

Nice blogs 09/02/10 « Raincoat Optimism — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 17:06:52 +0000

[...] Interested in Dave’s article on Sikh daggers, but also the comments thread on this one [...]

By: Dave Semple

Dave Semple — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 12:59:33 +0000

As I said above, if it can be made inoffensive then anyone should be allowed to wear them. It would be just another step along the road of the commercialization of another set of religious symbols, but sure, why not?

Whether or not an individual’s creed is superior to that of a creed held by many is an interesting question but doesn’t really come into this particular issue.

By: Dave Semple

Dave Semple — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 12:44:40 +0000

Barney, I suspect we do agree. What I was taking issue with was the way Jako framed the debate – and invoked the spectre of an attack on the principles of secularism. I wished to demonstrate that it need not be the case, that permitting people to carry out their beliefs, within the single confine being that they hurt no one else, is a good definition of secularism.