A brief interview with Denis MacShane
Further to this unfinished business from last week, here’s the brief ‘email interview’ with Denis MacShane.
It’s been a bit slow appearing because it got stuck on my malfunctioning email system. C’est la vie.
Denis didn’t answer all the questions, but we’re grateful for his time on the ones he did cover.
Denis, thank you for agreeing to talk to Though Cowards Flinch about your decision to resign from the Editorial Board of Total Politics over the publication of an interview with Nick Griffin, the racist leader of the BNP.
1) Can you set out for us why you felt you had to resign from the Editorial Board?
I am happy to write for any paper. Iain asked me to be on the editorial board of Total Politics and although he is a Tory propagandist I admire his publishing/writing flair and energy. Plus he is a very nice guy. I hope he gets a winnable seat as he would be a fine MP.
But I came into politics to fight racism and anti-semitism which Nick Griffin incarnates. Britain is turning a blind eye to rising Jew-Hate both here and in Europe which Griffin and the BNP encourage.
Iain had the courtesy to write to all members of the editorial board to say he was going to platform Nick Griffin in a Total Politics interview. I am sure he will ask tough questions but having watched journalists in the UK and in other countries think that their questions will expose racist and anti-semitism politicians. I have come to the sad conclusion that the extreme right always simply gain from the publicity, even hostile.
So while respecting Iain’s right to interview whom he wants in his journal I also have the right to say “Ohne mich” (without me).
Hence my withdrawing from the TB editorial board.
2) Do you feel that you and your fellow Board members were adequately and appropriately consulted over the decision to undertake an interview with Nick Griffin, given the controversy this was likely to create, and given your well-established views on engagement with the BNP?
Actually I think Iain Dale was very fair in letting us know. Paddy Ashdown replied to him but made no objection to the platform provided to the BNP as he merely asked Dale to ask questions on policy – as if that would make any difference.
But in South Yorkshire we have a real problem with xenophobic behaviour by local Lib-Dems which Nick Clegg, who is a South Yorkshire MP, refuses to condemn. The Lib-Dems are very complacent about the BNP.
3) Did you approach any other members of the Editorial Board to ask them to consider their positions?
No. Life is too short.
4) As you know, steps are now being taken to organise a boycott of the Total Politics Blog Awards for 2010 in protest at the now likely publication of the Griffin interview. Do you think such a boycott is justified?
Not a great boycott fan. Total Politics has little influence or readership despite being brightly edited with some good material in it of genuine interest to those fascinated by parliamentary politics.
But the London elite media especially the BBC has a love-affair with Griffin. You should read James Macintyre’s accounts in the New Statesman of how when he worked for Question Time the programme-makers were obsessed with Griffin. Ditto the Today programme.
6) More generally, what do you think the Labour Party, and the Left in general, should be doing to combat the BNP most effectively?
Support Hope Not Hate. Urge other anti-Nazi outfits like UAF to unite with Hope not Hate. Expose the BNP’s core anti-Jewish beliefs as well as its anti-semitism.
Write letter after letter to local weeklies and regionals exposing BNP endorsement of violence and the unbelievable record of their elected officials in terms of convictions for hate and other crimes.
Combat all racist prejudice. Support mainstream Muslim politicians who stand up against Islamist extremism which fuels anxiety and anger and is channelled by the BNP into electoral support.
[Update 21.30hrs: Iain Dale, Total Politics publisher, has now linked to this interview.
Iain Dale suggests that Dennis MacShane lacks consistency by first resigning from the TP Editorial Board, but then penning an article for the Guardian, which also used material from an interview with Nick Griffin (on which I set out my objection to the Guardian). As Dennis MacShane has no editorial control over the Guardian, I do not think this comparison stands up.
I think it is also worth stressing the point, which I make in the comments below, that according to Dennis MacShane the Editorial Board was not asked to approve the proposed publication of an interview with Nick Griffin, but rather to react to the decision taken. ]
[Update 2, 2255 hrs: Iain Dale has been on to me to contest Dennis MacShane's apparent version of events:
"Incorrect. At the last meeting of the Editorial Board it was discussed (MacShane and Lucas were not present). I specifically asked what people thought about us interviewing Griffin and every one of the six people present agreed."
See also my comment back to Iain in return.]
We are retired ex-RAF and have supported The British National Party for some years, and as you are entitled to find their views offensive, there are many many ordinary people who find your views offensive and insulting. In the years we have supported the British National Party, we have only met ordinary, decent, hard working people, not a single NAZI, knuckledragger, skinhead, or all the other ridiculous garbage that people like you come out with.
They are a legitimate, legal political party with support increasing all the time. And people – media people – have realised how if they do an article on The British National Party, especially Mr. Nick Griffin, MEP, their readership or viewing figures go through the roof!
Take the BBC Question Time, normally watched by about two and a half million, but when Nick Griffin was appearing it went up to eight million! And after the way he was treated – so they shot themselves in the foot – 22% of the British public said they were more likely to vote for the BNP!
They are here to stay and on the increase ever day – get over it!
We?
Did you mispell “wee”, Dave Semple?
You don’t seem to be saying much about anything except perhaps you need to wee?
As regards Eve’s comment about “we are retired ex-RAF”, my wife and I find “we” are in the same position, though I am R.N.(retd.) As we both seem to think along the same lines on many things, we tend to say “we” when we put our point of view. No doubt this does not suit people like yourself or Ms. Harman who would insist separate views from separate people and ne’er the twain shall meet. That might be OK for the likes of Harriet and her smuggled in Hubby to the safe seats but “we” are still quite old fashioned and “we” just speak as “we” find.
Would you like an affidavit (or something) sworn before a JP, Notary Public, or other fee-lifting chancer that the views expressed above truly reflect my wife’s POV?
‘I have come to the sad conclusion that the extreme right always simply gain from the publicity, even hostile.’
While I respect Mr MacShane’s opinions, I do not agree with his assessment.
Having interviewed Nick Griffin on many occasions, I have come to the conclusion that he is best exposed by constant scrutiny and continuous challenge – hence my decision to stand against him as the Liberal Democrat candidate in Barking. Griffin’s gargantuan ego is matched by an equally extraordinary ignorance of basic economics and social policy. The only politics he understands well are the politics of race and of race hatred, where he is without equal.
Over the coming weeks, Griffin needs to be challenged every step of the way by journalists and by politicians, without hesitation and without favour. Not all publicity is good publicity, as Mr Griffin will undoubtedly discover during the course of the Barking campaign.
Henry, I was simply curious as to who the “we” referred to was.
It makes no material difference I suppose, but it’s unusual to find someone who says “we” think something, and isn’t referring to a collective such as a political party, or faction thereof.
The remarks aligning me with Harriet Harman are as amusing as they are wide of the mark.
As for the rest, it’s Paul’s article so I’ll let him deal with such charming customers.
Henry @1: Before I get onto why you and your wife’s position is legitimized by the fact that you both had a career in the RAF – for I may have something to say on that – could I perhaps just ask you a question as a way of ascertaining your position with regards Nick Griffin?
Do you think it is reasonable of you to profess support for someone who said this of the Holocaust?:
‘I am well aware that the orthodox opinion is that 6 million Jews were gassed and cremated or turned into lamp shades. Orthodox opinion also once held that the earth is flat… I have reached the conclusion that the ‘extermination’ tale is a mixture of Allied wartime propaganda, extremely profitable lie and latter witch-hysteria.’
In the meantime, please note that nowhere have I suggested, or has it been suggested on this website, that the BNP is not a legal political party. Whether it is acting legitimately within the law is of course currently a contentious issue, as you know, but such niceties need not detain us here.
Dominic
I of course wish you well with any steps you are able to take to challenge Nick Griffin on the ground. I would have argued, as you would expect me to, that a better option would have been to get behind the Labour party in a unified anti-BNP campaign, in circumstances quite specific for the Lib Dems (I accept that this ‘squeeze’ is a position thrown at LibDem candidates up and down the country and they have a right to stand their ground).
But that decision is taken now and a vote for any party other than the BNP is useful, altough clearly not as useful in the FFTP system as it was in the Euros.
I do not, though, think that your position is diametrically opposed to that of Dennis MacShane. Nick Griffin is quite legally entering an election contest and there is quite rightly opposition to him, which will challenge him on the substanive issues both of this party’s race hate record and his total ignorance of socio-economic policy.
Dennis MacShane would not in these circumstances advocate withdrawing from the contest on the basis that contesting it would bring publicity to BNP. That would be a ridiculous position. His argument is that the BNP should not be afforded additional possibility where it is possible not to afford it, in this case through the decision by the TP Editorial Board not to publish an interview with Nick Griffin (I note in passing that the decision by the TP publisher to run the interview was simply announced to the board and their reaction to a decision sought rather than there being a discussion about what the decision should be).
Incorrect. At the last meeting of the Editorial Board it was discussed (MacShane and Lucas were not present). I specifically asked what people thought about us interviewing Griffin and every one of the six people present agreed.
Iain
Fair enough. I’m only going on what Dennis MacShane responded with by email:
“Iain had the courtesy to write to all members of the editorial board to say he was going to platform Nick Griffin in a Total Politics interview.”
These two versions of events do read differently, I think you’ll agree, although I accept it is possible: a) he wrote to all board members after the discussion to confirm the decision b) that he did not realise there had been such a discussion.
In any event, I was careful above to note the version in the OP is “according to Dennis MacShane”
As a courtesy, and as you are by far a more pleasant commenter than one I’ve had on this thread tonight, I’ll do a second update.
Dominic Carmen: “Griffin’s gargantuan ego.” That’s hilarious coming from you who made money from a book trashing his own father!
why don’t you ask Dennis MacShane why so many steel jobs have been lost in Rotherham since he became an M.P.
Or his opinion about the BNP having to fight to bring justice for a 11 year old girl who was groomed and raped my Muslim Men
many don’t find the BNP racist but if putting your own people first is racist to some so be it
John, I’m fairly certain the justice system – however imperfect – is what brought justice to an eleven year old girl if there was sufficient evidence to prosecute men who groomed and raped her.
Stay on topic please; it’s courtesy, even for BNP propagandists.
“having watched journalists in the UK and in other countries think that their questions will expose racist and anti-semitism politicians. I have come to the sad conclusion that the extreme right always simply gain from the publicity, even hostile.”
Truth.